Anyone considered the possibility Ireland has found its natural level?

Under Discussion: Ireland's crucial Euro 2012 victory over Macedonia

Chatting are: Miguel Delaney, Ken Early, Tony Leen and Irish Examiner football correspondent Liam Mackey

Tony Leen, Irish Examiner sports editor: Maybe it's just me, but I was feeling rather upbeat after that Macedonia win on Saturday night. High tempo affair with its typical Irish flaws, but a good three points that puts us right back in the mix. I know that wasn't the mood of the wise men of Montrose afterwards, but...

Ken Early, Newstalk football corr: I think it was just you. Most of the players didn't seem that impressed. Glenn Whelan virtually issued an apology on behalf of the team

Miguel Delaney, football writer: While I don't want want to appear negative, the team hasn't progressed in three years. In fact, we've probably regressed since Paris. You could essentially take any Irish win from last three years, switch names and the narrative would be more or less identical to Saturday.

Tony Leen: On that Paris point, people have to stop using that night as a reference point as if it was the norm at the time. It was not, it was virtually an aberration.

Ken Early: Their goalkeeper was a gibbering wreck. He effectively threw in two goals. So we didn't put another shot on target. How hard can it be?

Miguel Delaney: To be gifted a two-goal lead, a poor calamity of a keeper and a Macedonian team that had all but given up and STILL be hanging on as early as half-time is an indictment.

Tony Leen: So we're back straight away into the style v substance debate. And before anyone goes off and says, why can't we have both...yes, but that will take time - a campaign or two - and a different manager because Trapattoni was, is, and will never be what we require in that regard. I'm thinking we need to get to to a major finals – quickly - to bring about that re-connect between the players and the Irish public. Cliche or no, the goal just before the break changed the whole dynamic. This is an Irish side relatively low on confidence, remember. Squeezing this one out will do a lot of good.

Ken Early: What is worrying is that it's always the same story. We score early, lose the plot, concede. Has management not analysed why this keeps happening?

Liam Mackey, Irish Examiner football correspondent: Agreed that this is an old problem. Give us the higher ground and we'll do our best to fall off. But there was one big difference Saturday compared to, say, when we went two up against Israel under Brian Kerr - Trapattoni's team actually got over the line with the three points intact. And while it was nerve-wracking for a spell, you couldn't exactly say we were hanging on at the end.

Ken Early: We were better after Fahey came on. Why? Because we weren't giving the ball away every three passes. He played centre midfield against Norway and was very good. He was then DROPPED from the next squad, and only got in as an afterthought. Logic? Also with Trap, he got annoyed on Friday when someone asked whether he might, just for once, ask the full-backs to push on a bit. He said he had never told his full-backs to play cautiously, cited Cabrini and Brehme as examples of attacking full-backs he's had.

Liam Mackey: Has anyone considered the possibility Ireland has found its natural level? That we're just about as good as the players at our disposal, regardless of tactics. In other words, a mid-ranking European team, not the potential world-beaters that, in common with the familiar hubris of English football, we seem to think we are?

Ken Early: Yes, but, the frustration comes from the fact we feel the team could play better and that some of the players who might help us do that can't get in the team. We know Kilbane can't play quick passing football. Maybe Ciaran Clark could. But Kilbane's place in the team is as constant as the northern star.

Miguel Delaney: I think this is the fundamental problem. Trapattoni - obviously one of the all-time greats - still has enough qualities to make us hard to beat and durable. But I think he's too out of touch to give us that bit extra. Russia's three-man midfield, for example, is likely to expose again in the game that really matters.

Tony Leen: So in the creative areas of the pitch, ie the forward six players, who should start a home game, and would it be different for an away game? If Fahey starts, you're presumably saying Gibson doesn't. Does Whelan retain the holding role? And what is the preferred back four, all being fit and not suspended?

Ken Early: We haven't got a really outstanding holding midfielder. Whelan seems to be the only one with the humility to actually do a disciplined job there, even if he's not technically brilliant. When Fahey was talking about his midfield performance in the Norway game, he said "holding isn't really my game". Trap seems to see McCarthy almost as a second striker. So I guess Whelan does stay.

Miguel Delaney: If our options in midfield are so poor then why does Trapattoni only play two there? It sums up his refusal to evolve, as well as his caution.

Ken Early: Clark will play against Uruguay Tuesday so we'll see what he can do. Maybe he's not Cabrini or Brehme. But we know as long as we are using Kilbane, we won't get much flowing football down that side, and we know as long as we use Robbie we will give it away in midfield. They're the choices Trap makes.

Miguel Delaney: A three-man midfield would give Trap the protection he offers as well as providing extra angles going forward

Ken Early: Robbie is the only player who scores, so dropping him seems unthinkable. But maybe he's the only player who scores because using him means the team can't retain possession to the point where other players get chances.

Miguel Delaney: You see it with so many teams where the balance starts to tilt. The big player carries them, but also because everything has to be built around him. At Real Madrid, they have that debate now over whether team actually plays better without Cristiano Ronaldo.

Ken Early: Which is a pity, because it would be great to have Keane in reserve if things weren't working. I think his attitude is a bit selfish. Then again, he's turned up and played more than a 100 games for Ireland. Maybe it's too much to ask him to accept a sub role.

Liam Mackey: Ah come off it. You can't drop Keane. For a guy who has had so little football recently, his reaction for the goal was vital. The problem for Ireland in terms of retaining possession is that that there's little or no guile in central midfield, the very part of the pitch which tends to dictate the shape of a game. I'd play McCarthy in there but I can't see that fitting with Trap's holding obsession.

Ken Early: Trapattoni often compares Keane to Totti. But he's not really like him at all. Totti combines really well with team-mates coming from midfield. There was a moment Saturday when McGeady took a pass down on the left touchline. He tried to pass it forward to Keane. But Keane was running away from him, ahead of the ball. On RTE, McGeady got slated for playing a poor pass. But Keane's movement left him isolated. If he was the kind of player who dropped into midfield and helped to link play, then our system might work. Trap's "Totti" comparison suggests this is what he has in mind. But that's not what Keane is and it's not what he does. He's an old-fashioned kind of goalscorer who finishes moves off.

Tony Leen: Donal Lenihan is a great one for telling me that hacks never have to pick a team, so call it now. Midfield, four or five, as I asked.

Ken Early: Duff and McGeady for sure, then I'd like to see Whelan, Fahey, McCarthy

Tony Leen: With Keane or Doyle up top on his own? Or are you playing three at the back?

Miguel Delaney: On a related issue, what a pity David Meyler has had such trouble because he looks a real midfielder. I'd love to see 4-2-3-1, Whelan and a passer - so Fahey, with McCarthy ahead. And Doyle up front because these days he offers more than Robbie.

Tony Leen: And the back three or four?

Miguel Delaney: Coleman at right-back, but that's a pipe dream at present.

Ken Early: I'd go Clark, O'Shea, Dunne, Coleman

Liam Mackey: For Macedonia? Foley, O'Shea, St Ledger, Clark but Trap will stick with Kilbane - and, away from home, he has a case.

Ken Early: I don't get it. What is Kilbane doing that Clark can't? With Foley/Coleman, I can see the case for using Foley - I just want to get Coleman in the team, but I wouldn't pick him ahead of McGeady or Duff yet.

Tony Leen: Clark, O'Shea, Dunne, Coleman? Maybe for the 2014 campaign! We're elevating Ciaran Clark and he's still a rookie, with 24 first team games for Villa. Away from home, asking for trouble.

Ken Early: We haven't been shy of using young players in the past when they've been good enough. Steve Staunton was our first choice left-back at what, 19? Robbie Keane was first choice at 18. Ashley Cole, he was playing for England at 20 wasn't he? So why not Clark, when the player he'd be replacing is 34 and not even playing left back for his club?

Tony Leen: Stop, please. Don't put Cole and Clark in the same sentence. Ye're going Ciaran Clark more on the basis of Kilbane than the youngster's readiness? Anyway, how is the group shaping up now? Makes the June trip to Skopje really interesting now. Three points there and....

Miguel Delaney: Funny, that's where Trap deserves credit; he's good at negotiating results on tricky trips. However I'l think we'll gt undone in Moscow.

Ken Early: I think we will only draw in Macedonia when we really need to win. As for Moscow, I think Russia have lost only three home qualifiers since the Second World War. However two of those were in the last two years, to Germany and Slovakia.

Miguel Delaney: And the manner the Russians undid us in October worries me. What about Slovakia at Lansdowne?

Ken Early: We should beat them. If we don't, maybe it's best that we don't go to the Euros. I have seen Slovakia play a number of times between this group and the World Cup. They are no better than us. At home we have to beat them.

 

 

 

 

 

Source: http://feeds.examiner.ie/~r/iesportsblog/~3/SAv5cFAjGTk/post.aspx

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